bossymarmalade: a man in moko jumbie mud (moko jumbies are my entourage)
miss maggie ([personal profile] bossymarmalade) wrote2009-03-03 12:36 pm

the point is: by *my* standards, i won fair and square

So Kathryn Cramer says that all people who use web aliases are criminals, because the only reason to have a pseudonym is to feel more free to act in horrible ways on the internet.

Then she moves her post around, misdirects the links, and posts [livejournal.com profile] coffeeandink's full name on her blog. Which is, as we all know, a horrible way to act on the internet.

Then Will Shetterly decides to:
- also out [livejournal.com profile] coffeeandink and then demand apologies and praise from her when he does the bare minimum of taking down her surname
- use results from a google search about India to speculate on [livejournal.com profile] deepad's life situations, and quotes from Gandhi to supposedly enforce his "point"

Then his wife Emma Bull gets stroppy at somebody who's concerned about Shetterly having access to their personal info and starts lecturing about how it's unfair to judge him only by the horrible way he's acted the internet.

Then Elizabeth Bear runs around telling people (LIKE DEEPA HERSELF, WTF) that Will is actually so nice in real life, it's just ... he feels free to act in horrible ways on the internet.

Somebody is failing hard here.

And please note that Shetterly and Cramer and Co. have now reimagined the entire point of RaceFail 09 to be about internet pseudonymity instead of representations of race. Their insistence on focusing on the activities of white allies, repeatedly attempting to spread the meme that all of their critics are "East-coast upper-class Ivy Leaguers" (read: white), is yet another cowardly and slimy attempt to erase the presence of chromatic people in this discussion. We saw it when mac_stone and medievalist and Bear tried to pretend that there was a "maximum of twenty" disgruntled people, we're seeing it again with this fiction that internet fucking pseudonyms are the crux of the matter. They've realized that they can't attack fen of colour and still look like heroes, so they're trying to find some other way to imagine the Enemy.

Although, if you recall Cramer's original post wherein she posited that using her real name was proof that she indeed was, as she claimed to be, a "slim blonde woman in upstate NY" instead of a "fat black man in the Arizona desert", you'll see that they're still not doing so good at hiding their racism.

[livejournal.com profile] spiralsheep's suggestion that as a community we shun them is the one I'm following. I hope never to have cause to mention them in my journal again (and that goes for Elizabeth Bear too, who has often been held up as some sort of "voice of reason" in RaceFail but whose constant apologist behaviour for her douchey friends and false iteration of "bad behaviour on both sides" says something quite different).

[identity profile] yeloson.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 09:53 pm (UTC)(link)
It's so funny how much effort the ones claiming "secrecy is for evil" are going about in hiding their own words and actions...

[identity profile] leesalogic.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 10:40 pm (UTC)(link)
I was thinking the same thing myself. Very eyebrow raising.

[identity profile] kadymae.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 09:55 pm (UTC)(link)
because the only reason to have a pseudonym is to feel more free to act in horrible ways on the internet.

Because Shetterly et all certainly prove that using your real name is the bar to shitwittery and asshattism.

ext_872: eye with red flower petals as eyelashes (Default)

[identity profile] bossymarmalade.livejournal.com 2009-03-04 04:30 pm (UTC)(link)
I KNOW RIGHT

Why the fuck are these people still going? Are they *that* unable to back off from the discussion, just because they made themselves look bad? Aren't they aware that at this point there is NO POSSIBLE WAY to recoup?

[identity profile] violetisblue.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 09:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks for living up to every, single, solitary, stereotype of SFF types in the wild and then some, RaceFail Volken; at this point "Cat Piss Men" is far too kind an epithet. And if Elizabeth "I'm not actually white 'cos my ex-husband was part Cherokee" Bear is a "voice of reason" in all this then I'm Luna Batuna, the Crown Princess of Mars.
ext_150: (Default)

[identity profile] kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 10:04 pm (UTC)(link)
No, she's not white because she was raised by pagan lesbians. Get it right! >:0!

(no subject)

[identity profile] nextian.livejournal.com - 2009-03-03 22:37 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] tablesaw - 2009-03-04 09:01 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] chopchica.livejournal.com - 2009-03-04 00:28 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] kadymae.livejournal.com - 2009-03-03 22:11 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] kadymae.livejournal.com - 2009-03-03 22:25 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] sparkymonster.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 10:02 pm (UTC)(link)
Although, if you recall Cramer's original post wherein she posited that using her real name was proof that she indeed was, as she claimed to be, a "slim blonde woman in upstate NY" instead of a "fat black man in the Arizona desert", you'll see that they're still not doing so good at hiding their racism.

She password protected her entire journal/site. Google cache still rules.

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:Fdrn57fDzAMJ:www.kathryncramer.com/kathryn_cramer/2009/02/poems-about-internet-pseudonymity.html+kathryn+cramer+pseudonymity&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a

As does screencapping
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d17/starkeymonster/Pseudonym/3-3-20094-48-21PM.png
ext_872: eye with red flower petals as eyelashes (Default)

[identity profile] bossymarmalade.livejournal.com 2009-03-04 04:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Sweet! In an incriminating way, of course. *g* What would we do without you, honeykitten?!?!

(no subject)

[personal profile] zillah975 - 2009-03-05 02:43 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] robanybody.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 10:04 pm (UTC)(link)
I read all of that yesterday and felt sick to my stomach at how people who stood up for themselves were dismissed, demonized, or condescended to, and the entire direction of RaceFail 09 was said to be about internet anonymity. I am amazed that any one of these people can defend their disgusting, racist, troll-like behavior as acceptable simply because they're married to them or they're nice in real life or they use their real name on the internet.

I'm sad for those people who were fans of these authors and got to find out just how white and shiny and huge their asses are. I'm planning on never having anything to do with these people in any capacity, and hopefully, others will shun them for their complete failure as human beings.
ext_872: eye with red flower petals as eyelashes (Default)

[identity profile] bossymarmalade.livejournal.com 2009-03-04 04:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Shetterly and Cramer are write-offs. Bear, I think, disgusts me the most; she wants to retain her "I am sensitive to the needs of chromatic peoples!" cred so she's conciliatory, but those awful, awful people are her REAL friends so she still supports them. I have no use for her desire/ability to be given accolades for her amaaaaaaazingness in putting fictional PoC in her writing while still linking arms with people who are working so hard to alienate, silence, and dismiss *real live* PoC.

(no subject)

[identity profile] robanybody.livejournal.com - 2009-03-04 21:35 (UTC) - Expand
ext_41440: (Default)

[identity profile] itsbeenvery.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 10:07 pm (UTC)(link)
Their insistence on focusing on the activities of white allies

THE THROWING UP, IT WILL NOT STOP.

ITA on the ignoring, as they don't appear to have anything worthwhile to contribute to main topic, and reading them as they continue masturbating to the idea that they're personally saving PoCs from themselves is not a newsletter I'm interested in subscribing to.
ext_872: eye with red flower petals as eyelashes (Default)

[identity profile] bossymarmalade.livejournal.com 2009-03-04 04:48 pm (UTC)(link)
ahahahah, YES EXACTLY! They have absolutely NOTHING worthwhile! They are now working in a *negative amount* of worth. They are worth-deficit.
ext_6191: (Default)

[identity profile] abydosangel.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 10:14 pm (UTC)(link)
They've realized that they can't attack fen of colour and still look like heroes, so they're trying to find some other way to imagine the Enemy.

You just sliced right through the Gordian Knot of Fail. This needs to be repeated EVERYWHERE.
ext_2721: original art by james jean (jamesjean.com) (Default)

[identity profile] skywardprodigal.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 10:18 pm (UTC)(link)
This. Right here. They are doing it to punish white people that dare speak up about racism or back a person of color's reading of a situation that goes, "Racism. You're doing it here."
ext_150: (Default)

[identity profile] kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 10:14 pm (UTC)(link)
I had managed to totally block from my mind the "slim blonde woman" thing! D: Nice to know she's as fatphobic as she is racist.

It boggles my mind every time I think of how these people have turned a discussion that was weeks old by the time the NHs joined the party on the failboat (I'm imagining it like those commercials for cruise ships) to somehow be all about the NHs and pseudonyms. At first it could be put down to ignorance if you wanted to be charitable (big if), but at this point, there is no way it is not deliberate. "[T]rying to find some other way to imagine the Enemy" indeed.
ext_872: eye with red flower petals as eyelashes (Default)

[identity profile] bossymarmalade.livejournal.com 2009-03-04 05:00 pm (UTC)(link)
Hey now, don't you know that no discussion that happens where (the right) white people can't see it is ACTUALLY HAPPENING? I mean, only about twenty PoC actually cared about this issue in the first place!

On a slight aside, WTF is up with that argument anyway? I've seen detractors of the Avatar whitewashing protests say "oh it's only a few white girls who even care", as if there's not a legion of Asian people who are fucking PISSED AS HELL. The levels of selective acknowledgement that have been shown in people's haste to dismiss/reset the goalposts/silence RaceFail and Avatar-protest are BOGGLING.

[identity profile] indirajames.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 10:21 pm (UTC)(link)
But, I thought science fiction and fantasy were the genres of progress and open-mindedness! I am shocked...shocked! etc.

I would have never bought their books before anyway, but now I'm going to tell anyone I can not to.

This 'but they're so nice in real life!' bullshit is just beautiful. The internet apparently has nothing to do with real life. It's the Matrix!

[identity profile] indirajames.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 10:23 pm (UTC)(link)
And, is it okay if I link to this post in my journal?
ext_2721: original art by james jean (jamesjean.com) (Default)

[identity profile] skywardprodigal.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 10:24 pm (UTC)(link)
And please note that Shetterly and Cramer and Co. have now reimagined the entire point of RaceFail 09 to be about internet pseudonymity instead of representations of race. Their insistence on focusing on the activities of white allies, repeatedly attempting to spread the meme that all of their critics are "East-coast upper-class Ivy Leaguers", is yet another cowardly and slimy attempt to erase the presence of chromatic people in this discussion. We saw it when mac_stone and medievalist and Bear tried to pretend that there was a "maximum of twenty" disgruntled people, we're seeing it again with this fiction that internet fucking pseudonyms are the crux of the matter.

Thank you.

This began as a discussion and the racist attacks on deepad and Avalon's Willow by supporters of Elizabeth Bear and-- by proxy-- people who critisized the writing of Bear and other white writers who attempted to write people that white folks traditionally other in print and visual media and were not successful is the problem known as Racefail09.

[identity profile] tammylee.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 10:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Ah, so now we're to the point where those who speak out will be Named and in their Naming shall be implicitly targeted for persecution.

No matter how the Namers might protest, the posting of someone's real name on the Internet is an encouragement to do damage to that person off-line.

Let's stir that mob up a bit and heck it isn't OUR fault if that darn Name gets fired, stalked, harassed, or beaten. Brought it on his/herself by speaking up. S/he ought to know their place.

[identity profile] leesalogic.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 10:58 pm (UTC)(link)
This is exactly what has me sick reading about this stuff. Cramer should be fired for her own horrible Internet behavior.

(no subject)

[identity profile] leesalogic.livejournal.com - 2009-03-03 23:13 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] kita0610.livejournal.com - 2009-03-04 00:27 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] leesalogic.livejournal.com - 2009-03-04 04:28 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] leesalogic.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 10:54 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm just sick reading about their behavior.

[identity profile] i-naiad.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 11:03 pm (UTC)(link)
I can't believe they keep going and going and going. And yet I can.

Since I read [livejournal.com profile] coffeeandink's post yesterday I've been trying to think of a way to not have anything to do with Tor, but still support their writers of colour. The best I've been able to come up with is to borrow those authors from the library or buy their books second hand. I don't want to punish Tor authors specifically, but the level of inexcusable behaviour from people affiliated with them has tainted them permanently in my mind.

And if Elizabeth Bear thinks she's some how managing to restore her name with her current comments, then, well... I had been planning to read Shadow Unit when I found the time, now I'm not going anywhere near it.

[identity profile] quiet000001.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 11:46 pm (UTC)(link)
I would guess the most effective thing might be to write a letter to someone at Tor (not the people in question, obviously) stating why you are buying X books, but not any others.

I'd be worried that not buying them in a way that would show up on the Tor budget sheets would lead to less support for those authors down the road when people are looking at the numbers.

I don't know how much attention the people at Tor would pay to such things, though - if they're sensible, a lot, because it is their company image being dragged through the mud. On the other hand, businesses are not always sensible.

(no subject)

[identity profile] i-naiad.livejournal.com - 2009-03-04 06:03 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] quiet000001.livejournal.com - 2009-03-04 13:34 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] ethrosdemon.livejournal.com - 2009-03-06 03:50 (UTC) - Expand
ext_939: Sheep wearing an eyepatch (Default)

[identity profile] spiralsheep.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 11:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Good round-up post. Thank you.

::still feels surprisingly unerased, despite the Race FAILers two months of effort, possibly due to all the comments and pingbacks::

false iteration of "bad behaviour on both sides"

My head exploded when I saw Elizabeth Bear still spreading those unevidenced lies.

[identity profile] chrismm.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 11:22 pm (UTC)(link)
Ooh, ooh, I hadn't remembered Cramer's name from the original "slim blond" dealio. So now, I'm less WTF!!! and more *facepalm*. With added OMFG!!!

Seriously. I need a douche icon.

[identity profile] la-vie-noire.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 11:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Wow. These people are sicking me. And I... disgusted that they are trying to hide and derail the race conversation by making all about them, white people, and their big egos.

[identity profile] sixpita.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 11:44 pm (UTC)(link)
Is the person with whom this originated even part of it anymore? Or is it all just white fangirls and boys freaking the fuck out and insisting they're "sooooooo not racist, it is the coloreds who are racist for thinking about race" at this point?

Edit: It just occurred to me that Elizabeth Bear was the person who started this. So. I though she apologized. I'm so far outside of fandom at this point that I've thankfully missed most of this. :/

[identity profile] geneli4.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 11:52 pm (UTC)(link)
And please note that Shetterly and Cramer and Co. have now reimagined the entire point of RaceFail 09 to be about internet pseudonymity instead of representations of race.

so unsurprising that they shifted the focus from representations of race, where they KNOW they've failed utterly and are on wholly unstable ground (even if they won't ever admit it), to internet pseudonymity, a topic they've been recycling for years now and definitely feel more comfortable with (despite being COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT OMG).

UGH.

anyway, hey, i am all for shunning, although sadly, i've been shunning them for years and am nearly certain it's gone completely unnoticed.

[identity profile] color-blue.livejournal.com 2009-03-03 11:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Great post. And I'm with you on EBear.

[identity profile] marej.livejournal.com 2009-03-04 12:10 am (UTC)(link)
i absolutely fail to understand why would she do that. like, is she trying to help herself? him? i don't even... WHY WHOULD YOU DO THAT SAI WHY?

(no subject)

[identity profile] color-blue.livejournal.com - 2009-03-04 00:25 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] marej.livejournal.com 2009-03-04 12:07 am (UTC)(link)
dude, you remember the days when we thought that [livejournal.com profile] giogio was the epitome of stupid? this shit makes you wish for [livejournal.com profile] ginmar's brand of psychotic, because at least it's funny on some level. this is just BULLSHIT.
kiya: (Default)

[personal profile] kiya 2009-03-06 01:45 am (UTC)(link)
[livejournal.com profile] ginmar's caught a case of sane lately, I hear. She's hanging out with a porn star in the blogs.

[identity profile] wintersweet.livejournal.com 2009-03-04 12:28 am (UTC)(link)
*headclutch*

[identity profile] chopchica.livejournal.com 2009-03-04 12:33 am (UTC)(link)
I'm so sick of all of the Will Fuckhead apologists who keep going on about what a raving asshole he is on the internet, but he's *so nice and good in real life*. Hell, even tnh tried to pull that shit! And I'm sorry, but if you feel the need to ban a real life friend from your blog because they are saying and doing such crazy things, maybe you need to rethink the friendship. Hell, if *I* was the person being banned, I wouldn't be so eager to stay friends with somebody who trashed me all over the internet and was only willing to engage with me in one aspect of my life.

I hate how much this got derailed. I noticed anna doing that a few weeks ago - reframing the entire thing as white people getting mad at other white people. It brings a whole new meaning to the word "whitewash." I hate that they're all trying so hard to silence you and it gives me a bit of joy to imagine how infuriating it must be to all of them that the POC they are trying *so hard* to dismiss and ignore are refusing to let it happen. They keep thinking it'll be an easy victory, and yet they lose, time and time again.

[identity profile] latxcvi.livejournal.com 2009-03-05 04:28 am (UTC)(link)
I'm so sick of all of the Will Fuckhead apologists who keep going on about what a raving asshole he is on the internet, but he's *so nice and good in real life*.

This is what absolutely drives me nuts about that particular line of The Apologista Shuffle:

Of course he doesn't act like this off-line. If he acted like this off-line, where there's a potential loss of social currency with people he sees face-to-face on a regular basis, he wouldn't have any friends!! That's my first point. My second is that that line of apologia perpetuates the fallacy that what happens off the Internet is 'real' but what happens on the Internet 'isn't real' and that's a bullshit fallacy. The Internet isn't imaginary and neither are the people WS (or anyone else) interacts with on the Internet. That professional writers keep trying to act as though the written word has no power completely infuriates me.

(no subject)

[identity profile] sodzilla.livejournal.com - 2009-03-05 08:41 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] chopchica.livejournal.com - 2009-03-05 15:20 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] sodzilla.livejournal.com - 2009-03-05 23:46 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] carlanime.livejournal.com 2009-03-04 12:50 am (UTC)(link)
Then his wife Emma Bull gets stroppy at somebody who's concerned about Shetterly having access to their personal info and starts lecturing about how it's unfair to judge him only by the horrible way he's acted the internet.

Then Elizabeth Bear runs around telling people (LIKE DEEPA HERSELF, WTF) that Will is actually so nice in real life, it's just ... he feels free to act in horrible ways on the internet.


This reminds me horribly of RL situations in which people tried to convince me that they weren't responsible for any of their own behaviour if they were drunk at the time. Because deciding to get drunk magically absolves you of the things you know you do every damn time you're drunk, apparently.

It took me years to realize that was bullshit. But now I'm done with Magic Circumstances That Eliminate Responsibility. How you act when drunk; when on the internet; when arguing; how you treat people who aren't your friends; it all counts.

they're trying to find some other way to imagine the Enemy.

*nods* Yeah, you've cut through to the heart of it, I think.

[identity profile] raincitygirl.livejournal.com 2009-03-04 02:40 am (UTC)(link)
You give good rant.

That is all.

[identity profile] tatterpunk.livejournal.com 2009-03-04 03:04 am (UTC)(link)
Then Elizabeth Bear runs around telling people (LIKE DEEPA HERSELF, WTF) that Will is actually so nice in real life, it's just ... he feels free to act in horrible ways on the internet.

I will never-ever understand this argument. Bad listener =/= good person, I do not care where we are. I don't care if we suddenly find out we're in the freakin' Matrix.

I think some people regard the internet like alcohol -- the same heady illusion of power, of importance, the after-the-fact insistence of "but it doesn't count!"

(I always think it counts more, actually. Or if not more, at least it's a big red flag. If someone is an asshole when it's just them and the click of a keyboard, and they can dismiss basic decency because they don't have to deal with the immediate reaction of the person while standing physically in front of them, that doesn't make them a good person with asshole tendencies. It makes them an asshole and a coward.)
medie: queen elsa's grand entrance (Default)

[personal profile] medie 2009-03-04 03:51 am (UTC)(link)
I think it counts more too. They always say integrity is what you do when you think no one is looking.

Guess we know how much integrity they're rocking.

(no subject)

[identity profile] quiet000001.livejournal.com - 2009-03-04 13:40 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[identity profile] sodzilla.livejournal.com - 2009-03-05 08:44 (UTC) - Expand

Page 1 of 2