this isn't very convenient

[bossymarmalade]

Just in case any of y'all were led to believe that using the word "slumdog" to refer to Indian people is fun, jokey slang, please ... don't.

http://navia.livejournal.com/220989.html

http://www.amconmag.com/larison/2009/02/26/slums-are-for-lovers/

http://www.musicindiaonline.com/n/i/top_stories/2867/ (ETA: I include this last one for his account of the term being used, not b/c I necessarily agree with his views on Mumbai.)

Comments

[withdiamonds.livejournal.com]

I'd like to think no one is that clueless, but we both know that's not true.

[bossymarmalade.livejournal.com]

Oh man, EXACTLY. To be honest I didn't see this one coming, so I'm even more taken aback than usual!

[epicflailer.livejournal.com]

i - ugh. i don't even know where to begin with this movie.

the fact that i think it's a complete and utter joke aside, i'm so ragey idek what to do with myself. like it's not bad enough this movie is getting (undeserved) acclaim for sending out all the wrong kinds of ideas about a situation that isn't even remotely, remotely hopeful or uplifting, the acclaim from hollywood stays in hollywood and the kids in india, the ones who need it, and the ones you'd think would be benefitting from having their story told - however mangled - are back in the slums, still left with nothing, and it is just so. UGH.

i'm sorry, i will stop invading your journal now!

[bossymarmalade.livejournal.com]

ahahaha, I never rebuke people for getting ragey in my journal!

I half-watched the movie with my family and my sister and I agreed that it wasn't bad, but it wasn't anything special; it's the very fact that it's a familiar story that takes place in "exotic India" that has drawn such a big Western audience. I think people recognize the tropes and are excited by the trappings.

Basically, I have totally mixed feelings about the movie and what exactly it represents to the West about Indian people, and you hit on some of my issues exactly! So I am glad you left a comment, bb.

[quiet000001.livejournal.com]

There was some piece about the film before the Oscars, where a reporting crew had gone to meet the kids from the movie before they flew out to Hollywood, and pretty much the entire time, I was thinking "Okay, so. Wildly successful film... And yet child actors still live in slum. Where is all that money from the film going exactly?"

(I should add that I totally appreciate that film is at heart a money-making industry. However, I feel that if you turn to the misfortunes of others for your story idea, and profit significantly from it, it's just unethical to not use some of that money to in some way try to address the misfortunes.)

I mean, I think they did mention that the families of the children are getting houses(?), and there's some kind of educational trust fund for the kids - but that doesn't seem enough to me. I would like to see some of the movie funds going to set up something to help EVERYONE in that situation. Perhaps to some kind of educational facility, or medical clinic. I suspect the kind of cash the movie could justify donating would make a BIG difference to some charitable groups working in the area.)

[tammylee.livejournal.com]

...
I had assumed 'slumdog' was derogatory. Like 'guttersnipe' or 'white trash'.

[bossymarmalade.livejournal.com]

You would think, right? I guess it's like how people think saying "my ni**a" is acceptable once the term entered pop culture. Entitled dumbasses who don't bother to think about the weight of what they're saying.

[strippedhalo.livejournal.com]

I feel like everybody should know by now that it's not okay to refer to people of any ethnicity or country of origin by any kind of slang, but I guess not, huh?

[chrismm.livejournal.com]

This.

[violetisblue.livejournal.com]

I am never, ever, ever, ever going to stop headdesking at your second link.

[bossymarmalade.livejournal.com]

SERIOUSLY WHAT IS GOING ON THERE. I mean, the Ann Coulter addendum at the bottom was no surprise, but the rest of it was sheer grossness.

[indirajames.livejournal.com]

I'd say, "How could anyone NOT realize that referring to people as 'slum dog' is FUCKED UP?" but I'm clearly being naive here. What the hell.

[bossymarmalade.livejournal.com]

What are you trying to say, that watching that movie ISN'T the equivalent of actually learning anything about India?

[skywardprodigal.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the links! x-post, please?

[bossymarmalade.livejournal.com]

Done!

[vogelein.livejournal.com]

If I have ever uttered the word "bling" before, I will never say it again after reading that second post. I just... ugh.

[bossymarmalade.livejournal.com]

That second link is full of so much reportage of fail, I'm surprised the people it refers to haven't sunk through the pavement.

[dine.livejournal.com]

I just ... why would anyone assume that was cool or ok?

people puzzle me, a lot.

[bossymarmalade.livejournal.com]

I am so astonished that people have started casually using that term. Why won't they stop and *think* about what they're saying for a moment?!?

[spiralsheep.livejournal.com]

I... had no idea what your comment meant until after I'd read the third link.... o_O

Erm... thank you for informing me, I think? :-/

[bossymarmalade.livejournal.com]

heh, I posted in a rush and in a lot of annoyance, so I didn't frame it quite as transparently as usual.

[adorkable08.livejournal.com]

I'm confused by this film. I don't even know what it's about. All I know is the kids in that movie were sofaking cute on the red carpet. That's all I know about it.

[unlovablehands.livejournal.com]

What in the actual hell.

[bossymarmalade.livejournal.com]

I am conflicted about the movie because as much as I dislike the idea of "Indians-as-told-by-the-colonizer", it's been novel and kind of awesome to actually *see* people with my skin colour being talked about as artists and showing up on red carpets and stuff. So it's shitty on top of that to see that *this* is what Westerners take away from the whole thing: a new slang term to refer to desis. Ugh.

(Your icon, however, is incredible!)

[impertinence.livejournal.com]

(here via glockgal)

uggggggh. :/ :/ :/ i hate how voyeuristic it is - if you watch a movie about all the poor brown people in a slum, you truly understand exactly how life is in ALL OF INDIA! maybe even for ALL BROWN PEOPLE EVERYWHERE ALWAYS!

I can see how the title could be ironic/meant to draw a contrast between stereotype and reality, but the fact that the people honored for the movie were all white, combined with the fact that the movie's popular right now because of its success with the Western, racist movie market, pretty much destroys whatever intent it might've had.

[faraway66.livejournal.com]

I agree - I think what I resent is that it was made with an absolute eye to telling the story to a Western audience. It is not a farfetched depiction; the Mumbai slums really *are* massive, there *is* a great deal of classism against slum residents, there really *are* organized gangs of deliberately maimed beggars... and when it is told by a Westerner catering to a Western audience, the story gets lost in the innate condescension. I keep thinking back to Mira Nair's "Salaam Bombay" and I think I wouldn't have resented the movie so much if it came from her rather than Boyle.

that the people honored for the movie were all white

except for AR Rahman, who won 3 of the 8 oscars. He's been honored for plenty already, but not by the Academy. Does he finally count as famous yet, i wonder?

[maschalismos.livejournal.com]

That second link actually made me fucking nauseous. What the pluperfect fuck?

[ms-nerd.livejournal.com]

When I saw the title to the movie, I couldn't believe it! The best is Oprah shouting SLUMDOG, SLUMDOG, SLUMDOG when she had the stars of the movie on her show and I'm all "but..." oh well.

[bossymarmalade.livejournal.com]

SHE *WHAT* OMG

I swear, Oprah is just losing her damn grip on appropriate responses more and more every day. I saw that one where she was talking to a girl from Mauritania who was explaining that women are expected to be heavy there, to the extent that some women were taking veterinary drugs to put on weight and how diabetes was a real problem, and all Oprah could do was sing, "I'M MOVING TO MAURITANIA, MAU-RI-TAI-NI-AAAAAAA!" and I was like, what the fuck, lady.

[copracat]

When I read this kind of link, the period of time between when I start to think, 'Surely you're joking?' and when I stop thinking it is getting shorter and shorter. Soon, I learn will stop trying to think the best of my fellow white people, because we don't deserve that benefit of the doubt.

What part of 'slumdog' can anyone think is not an insult?

Who'd have thought that a major 'little battler', overcoming adversity role wouldn't get a best actor nomination? I guess Tom Hanks must truly be the actor the Academy thinks he is. How wrong I was in my cynicism!

[spiralsheep.livejournal.com]

Who'd have thought that a major 'little battler', overcoming adversity role wouldn't get a best actor nomination? I guess Tom Hanks must truly be the actor the Academy thinks he is. How wrong I was in my cynicism!

WIN!

[nargynargy.livejournal.com]

Thanks for showing me the link because apparently I am blind or something dammit.

Yes, I agree with those posts. Slumdogs does sound like it is being used as a derogative term whereas the intention in the title of the movie appears to have been ironic (in my opinion, you don't have to agree with me on that part). It's pretty much unthinkable to me that people are referring to Indians as slumdogs, it's obviously a negative term. Uncool but it's the way the world works. We can only tell people and hope they change. Thanks for letting me know.

Lastly, I personally don't agree with everything that Srivastava says in the third entry. I don't think the movie is showing the ugly side of India at all - in fact, I think poverty is something that should be highlighted about South Asian countries. Again, that's a personal opinion. That interview also shows how normal words can mutate and become ugly with changes to culture. 'Gora' (in Britain anyway) is used by the Indian community in a slightly racist way, the way someone might say 'Oh he's a whiteboy'. Not everyone, but some.

I'm heading to bed now but I'd like to hear what you think if you wanna reply back.

[bossymarmalade.livejournal.com]

ahahahah, no worries!

I don't agree with everything Srivastava says either; that link's mostly there for his account of hearing "slumdog" used to address/describe desis in the US. There's certainly a lot of resistance from Indians about the poverty that exists in the country; even though we're Caribbean desis and not directly implicated, my mom *refuses* to watch movies that portray India in any sort of uncomplimentary light because she's so invested in pretending the slums are some kind of natural occurrence and not helped along by South Asian elites.

And I hear you on the shifting meanings of words; in North America "coolie" is mostly used to refer historically to Chinese field-workers and doesn't seem to be hugely offensive (although I could be wrong on that), but in my experience in Trinidad it was equivalent to the n-word when it came to insulting Indian people!

[parlance.livejournal.com]

I have mixed feelings because I liked the film on one hand, but I also understand it was problematic. I also wonder how much the film departs from the book. And I can't believe anyone would believe it's okay to call someone a slumdog. Well, I can given the justifications for people calling the n-word. 'Cos it's a term of endearment long as you spell it differently, amirite?

[itsbeenvery.livejournal.com]

I was surprised at the "oooh, shiny!" reaction to the film b/c it feels like north America has already done that, on a large scale, more than once, but I guess othering and appropriation never get tired for the west.

Also, GOP WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!? IT IS BREAKING MY BRAIN.

[robanybody.livejournal.com]

...do people really have to be fucking told not to use derogatory slang when referring to other ethnicities? REALLY? Because I was under the impression that it was common fucking sense!

[robanybody.livejournal.com]

Also, I am ignoring that second link because my blood pressure cannot take the massive fail on every level.

[deepad]

::explodes::

[delux-vivens.livejournal.com]

Can someone tell me why curtis sliwa has a radio show? Please?

Anyway...

I'm just waiting for someone to come up with a "Slumdog Yoga" exercise video so I can orc the fuck out on some dumbass.

People know perfectly well that this a derogatory term. Ultimately this speaks a lot to just how terrified these fools are to see immigrant financial and political success, especially now.