bossymarmalade: the wry virgin of guadalupe (la morenita)
miss maggie ([personal profile] bossymarmalade) wrote2010-03-12 12:06 pm
Entry tags:

i'm not gay! i'm nothing yet!

Also (and it is a testament to how very uncomfortable I am with talking about this sort of thing with people in person that this is my first mention of it EVER), I am starting to suspect that I might be asexual? Which is confusing, because I can't even tell if this puts me into the category of queer, or if I have to specifically identify as gay or straight first, or if there's a whole different category for asexuality, or ... shit, I don't even know. Everything I've read about asexuality/autosexuality contradicts the other stuff. All I know is I really like to think about people (ranging over genders) having sex, but never involving *me*. I have utterly no desire to physically have any of it myself ever again. But I still find lots of things hot.

The thought of saying this to people only to have them counter with, "oh but you haven't had ENOUGH/the right KIND of sex" or "you're just AVOIDANT/have MENTAL HEALTH issues" or "you probably just DON'T FEEL ATTRACTIVE" or "you just need to find the RIGHT GUY" is so anxiety-making, y'all. Not that I'm ever very forthcoming about my sexuality to begin with -- which leads to stuff like people at film school or the women's studies dept assuming I'm a lesbian, and most other people assuming I have "failed to catch a man" -- but all the same.

How the hell do I end this post?

Oh, I know! I was reading the Visions newsletter and came across a link to Sher Vancouver, which I totally didn't even know existed. Very cool.

Er, I haven't locked/privatized this post. I figure if I'm gonna actually verbalize this, I might as well get it all out there, eh?

*awkward whistling*
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[personal profile] supermouse 2010-03-12 08:51 pm (UTC)(link)
My experience of asexuals so far is that they just plain don't like and don't want sex. It's not a phobia, it's just a sheer lack of sexual attraction to or sexual arousal by anything. Gay/Lesbian=attracted to same sex, Straight=attracted to opposite sex, Bisexual=Sex does not determine attraction, Queer=...? and Asexual=No sex please we're British

I've known one in a fairly happy, committed but celibate relationship, who definitely enjoyed hot slash. The others were loners and I know little about them beyond discussions of LGBT sexuality. As far as I know, it's just another orientation in a world full of orientations. 'None of the above' surely ought to be a viable option. Just like some people are teetotal for no other reason than they don't like or enjoy alcohol, not because they're religious or an alcoholic or haven't found the right booze yet.

Apologies if this comes across as insensitive, it's meant to be a comment in support of your right to be asexual and not be hassled for it.
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[personal profile] sinensis 2010-03-12 08:52 pm (UTC)(link)
You are brave and deserve kudos and the celebratory refreshing beverage of your choice. I am no expert on queer as a category, but I say, if it feels right, it's yours to claim.
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[personal profile] yeloson 2010-03-12 08:55 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, it's always good to know what you like!

And ugh, the dismissal factor is something that's just going to be how society rolls- aside from the usual BS of "women must be available to men" rule, there's also the fact that so many people have bad or weak sex that they end up alienated from their own sexuality. Positive asexuality is something that's so far down the line for society to even try to deal with.
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[personal profile] glockgal 2010-03-12 08:57 pm (UTC)(link)

"In a pomosexual world, sexual categories are no longer rigid. People can move beyond labels - gay, straight, lesbian, bisexual, transexual, etc - while acknowledging the importance those labels played in the past." - Mitchel Raphael, - Where Gay Goes After the Mainstream, The Toronto Star, 1998. Pomosexuality refers to a nonorientation, a dismissal of all labels, by which sexuality is viewed as a fluid experience, rather than a fixed point. This new view understands that love transcends gender, and that one's identity is not defined by their gender or sexual orientation. Today, the homo/hetero divide is quickly dissolving, and the emergence of pomosexuality moves us towards a foreseeable future in which the many dimensions and diversities of human sexual desire, behavior, and attraction can be understood as they really are."

I just learned this word yesterday!

also omg just imagining you saying you're pomosexual to mumsy and dad over dim sum is giving me OODLES OF LOL.
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[personal profile] glockgal 2010-03-12 09:05 pm (UTC)(link)
LOL also - apologies if me even replying to this post is making you cringe because HELLO CONVERSATIONS WE JUST DON'T HAVE IN OUR FAM - but this is very interesting to me! In a good way. :D

Here, have some Paul eyelashes.

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[personal profile] delfinnium 2010-03-12 08:58 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm asexual too, and believe me I know when people keep telling you it's "you just haven't found the right person!!" And then go on about the stuff that I've written porn or have had crushes...

But I'm not sexually attracted to people, and lately I don't even crush on anyone. So I believe I'm asexual.

I'd found an lj, glad_to_be_a which helped answer quite a few of my questions and clarify my thoughts.

As for whether asexuality should be 'queer' or not? Well, I guess it depends on yourself, really. Especially since people assume heterosexuality and everything else is considered queer...

But I understand! and. Stuff. >.>

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[personal profile] rural_juror 2010-03-12 09:00 pm (UTC)(link)
Honestly I think some people feel 'failed to catch a man' is the answer to EVERYTHING.
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[personal profile] glockgal 2010-03-12 09:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Seriously. We need to start a blog so women can chime in and bitch about the LATEST time they heard someone say this about them in regards to their looks/clothes/personality/career/kids/money/housing/existance.

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[personal profile] iceinyourmusic 2010-03-12 09:03 pm (UTC)(link)
Yay, you! You're wonderful & valid & lovely (& queer, if you like), whatever you are. (Not that you need me to tell you that, OBVIOUSLY, but. <3s)
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[personal profile] the_future_modernes 2010-03-12 09:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Asexuality, as far as I have read, isn't the same thing as gay or lesbian or hetero. It just means that you aren't sexually attracted to people. I don't know if you read angry black woman, but i got a hold of some cool links if you haven't read them before: What do you mean by sex: Questionings of the sexually non-specific and Asexual explorations and Sexual, Romantic and Secondary Orientations – Summary of the Series

oh. I see.

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[personal profile] elynross 2010-03-12 09:19 pm (UTC)(link)
Hi, TMI ahead, probably, but I think I'm tired of *not* saying things like this, and just thinking them. Thank you for the catalyst to say them!

I think that we do get so anxious about the labels that it's incredibly stressful; I haven't been involved with anyone for years, not even dating, and... I don't miss it much. I have too many other things to do, and lots of friends, and I don't miss the stresses and complications of a sexual relationship at ALL.

I was kind of promiscuous when I was much younger, usually when I was drunk, but looking back, what I wanted was the feeling someone cared, and the feeling of power that having someone want me gave me. In the few longer-term relationships I had, I didn't dislike sex, but I think I would have been perfectly happy with the foreplay part of things. I liked making the guys I was with happy, but when it came time to them returning the favor... it felt a lot like work, and I remember kind of zoning out sometimes until it was over.

I believe that asexuality is a completely valid way of being, but it's not something a lot of people can accept. Yes, some people aren't interested in sex due to medication side effects, or illness, or what have you. But some people just... aren't interested in sex. And in US society, at least, that's JUST NOT NORMAL. People can't conceive of being happy, healthy, and not interested in sex. Because then you're frigid! Which... not so much. And like you, there are things that turn me on, I love a good hot sex scene, but I don't put myself in it, and I don't need it to take place anywhere outside my brain.

I have a couple of friends who have urged me to get a vibrator, because clearly, if I don't have orgasms, something is wrong, and all it takes is a little effort! But frankly, it seems a lot more like work, trying to achieve something because someone else thinks I should, and I have other things I'd rather be doing. Yay, for people who enjoy it, and want to get themselves off, more power to you! Just don't try and tell me I'm broken.

It took me a long time to realize that... it's not a lack to me. I don't care, and it's not that I don't get turned on by things, or even enjoy some physical contact (or have, in the past), but sex... it's never been about the sexual contact, to me, and it was a tremendous relief to me to consider that maybe there was nothing wrong with me, I just didn't much care about sex.

I have no answers about the category stuff; that doesn't matter a whole lot to me, for myself. I strangely identify as both straight and somewhat asexual, even though there are a number of women I find very hot. I remember a conversation with someone at one point where I was trying to explain how I find some women very erotic, but I'm not physically attracted to them; it completely made no sense to them, and I think it's tied to this whole issue. Our conceptions of sexuality have trouble encompassing someone who has an erotic capacity that is not expressed physically. Although I don't know how much of my ability to find these women hot stems from my complicitness in the pervasive male gaze that I was raised with.

Anyway, I'm not really sure just what "queer" means, anymore; some people seem to equate it solely with being gay, for others it encompasses anyone who wants to wear the label, so.... I dunno. *g*

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[personal profile] la_vie_noire 2010-03-12 09:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Wow, are you me? I have been debating for days to write a post saying almost the exact same thing.

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[personal profile] true_statement 2010-03-12 09:24 pm (UTC)(link)
I think asexuality's queer - I mean, I feel queer - but we don't seem to get included on the queer invite list all that much. Did you see this post over on [community profile] asexuality?
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[personal profile] softestbullet 2010-03-12 09:31 pm (UTC)(link)
I just read a blog post about asexuality/autosexuality (which described it a lot like the way you do, here) that BLEW MY MIND with how much it resembles how I feel. Turns out I had a totally wrong idea of what asexuality has to be. But I do have mental health issues, and trauma issues, and side effects from medication, so maybe not??? (I kind of hope not, as I'm in a monogamous relationship with a sexual person. D:)

Anyway, it's definitely a marginalized sexuality, so you can totally identify as queer, if you want to. But you don't have to! Other people would probably give you crap, but then bi/pansexuals and other folks deal with that, too. Whatever, screw those guys.

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[personal profile] buria_q 2010-03-13 08:40 pm (UTC)(link)
would you mind linking to that post?

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[personal profile] stewardess 2010-03-12 09:33 pm (UTC)(link)
There is a national organization for asexuals that tries to address the myths of asexuality. According to them, asexuals are not necessarily opposed to romantic relationships, they just aren't interested in sexual expressions of love -- note some physical expression may be desired, such as holding and cuddling. Asexuals are just the same as everyone else in the myriad ways they may be attracted to the different genders. They may be queer, they may be straight. But not all asexuals want romantic relationships, and, if they don't, the question of which gender they are attracted to isn't one they necessarily need to ponder.

Being asexual is definitely not being nothing.
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[personal profile] stewardess 2010-03-12 09:54 pm (UTC)(link)
As to whether you should consider yourself queer: the LGBTQ community needs a vowel. :D

-- said by someone not me.

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[personal profile] alchemy 2010-03-12 09:37 pm (UTC)(link)
The older I get, the more convinced I become that sexual identity is actually a myth because sexual orientation is fluid. Unfortunately, we live in a society compelled to place itself into neat little categories, and even a category seen as strange or different is still better than no category at all. Obviously I think it's great that you're considering the full spectrum of sexuality and not just trying to pigeonhole yourself into something socially-acceptable, but I also think being whatever you are is cool, even if there's not a label for it.
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[personal profile] chalcopyrite 2010-03-12 09:39 pm (UTC)(link)
You are not nothing! You are anything you want to be!

Heh, I think this is catching -- I recently had this sort of O HAI realisation about myself. Or, rather, discovered that hey, there's a name for that. To me, asexuality kind of falls under the "queer" umbrella almost by default, because it's not the heteronorm; other qualifiers (homoromantic, heteroromantic, whatever else there may be out there, I have no idea) come after that. But yanno, you can be asexual any way that makes sense for you.

As for not having had the right kind/enough sex with the right person/ solving my issues/whatever... so, what, I'm supposed to repeat unpleasant experiences just to prove a negative to your satisfaction? "Finding a man" is not the answer to everything, and I call BS. Go soak your head. (Generic annoying-me you, obvs, not awesome-Maggie you.)

PS, you know about [community profile] asexuality, yes?
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[personal profile] neekabe 2010-03-12 09:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Found you through my network, just wanted to say that I've been exactly where you are. Asexual such a confusing label because no one ever seems to be able to come out and say "this is what sexual attraction feels like, this is how you will know", so everyone kinda has to just find their own way to a definition with no reference points.

I found the asexuality communities lj and dw useful if only for a place to talk about how I felt, and have other people confirm they felt the same way.
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[identity profile] 2010-03-12 09:50 pm (UTC)(link)

I've been meaning to post about this since, like, summer lol. I'm still a little confused about it all but besides actually wanting sex a LOT it seems to fit me - I've never really been sexually attracted to actual people I could have sex with. The times I've tried I've gotten a little bored, like, there needs to be something else happening for me to actually get interested. Like it's all in my head? Subsequently, I was actively trying to have a "slutty phase" last year and I had sex with... two guys. And even them I didn't find particularly attractive, they were just the most aggressive. It's not like I'm gonna chase guys I'm not attracted to, which is apparently all of them. I'm open minded to being with girls, too, but, just never felt any actual desire for them.

But I *want* sex, and I definitely want to have a relationship. I just... have never really had a crush on anyone? :-(

So anyways THANK YOU for posting this!
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[personal profile] rydra_wong 2010-03-12 09:50 pm (UTC)(link)
Yay for self-understanding and figuring out what you do and don't want!

Just thought I'd mention that [community profile] asexual_fandom is another comm that might be of interest to you.
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[personal profile] dine 2010-03-12 09:58 pm (UTC)(link)
in the interests of TMI & overshare:

it's essential to figure out who you are and what's truly important - and who (or who not) you're attracted to is totally the last thing that matters. congrats on some major self-examination! however you end up identifying, be happy. I'm not the Decider of All, but queer as a general designate works for me - after all, it basically points to "not the norm" and asexuality totally fits into that category

much of what elynross says rings very true for me - I haven't had sex with anyone in ... over 20 years? even when I was younger, I just didn't care enough to go looking for partners, and never really knew what to do when someone indicated potential interest, if I managed to pick up clues at all.

I've never had a burning desire to be paired up or "with someone" and had some magnificent discussions when younger with folks who firmly believed in the Power of Tru Luv, and who couldn't understand that everyone didn't share that worldview

I do enjoy depictions of other people having sex and can get turned liek whoa by reading slash/porn, but it's not something I want personally.

I've always identified as lesbian, but celibate; though in some ways asexual might be closer to my truth - at least, I've been considering it more seriously in the past few months.
Edited 2010-03-12 21:58 (UTC)
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[personal profile] florence_craye 2010-03-12 10:07 pm (UTC)(link)
I admit I'm guilty of the "not getting good sex" thoughts, because I definitely felt that way myself before I realized what I liked. I was having sex with guys (as I'm pretty much hetero) because I wanted a feeling of closeness and was not actually interested in sex itself, not enjoying it. But I had to take time away from them and focus on me for a few years, had a few celibate years where I basically learned what I liked. I am surprised I am admitting it here, but I spent those years pleasuring myself and finding out what I liked and finding out that I really did like sex. (Although if I go without it for a while, I stop thinking about it and am not bothered most of the time.) It changed a lot of things for me.

But I am understanding that it's not like that for everyone, and I think that if you are not feeling that you want to explore sex or not having those feelings at all... you shouldn't feel forced to be or do anything (or anyone) you don't want. Go you if you are asexual!

I am also really touched that you spoke up about this and even made it public. Cause I would have buried it deep inside and been scared... I am enjoying reading people's posts, because learning about others' views and journeys... I think sexual identity is so fluid and asexuality is definitely an option among many. This is a great topic.
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[personal profile] mona 2010-03-12 10:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Man, I wish I knew you better so it wouldn't be striking me as vaguely intrusive/tactless to reply to this, but well, sexual confusion was one bane of my existence for about 9+ years (and I'd still say I'm more questioning/in flux than proudly asexual/queer), so I always want to chime in on these topics because I know how much stress and frustration and fear and identity crisis they can bring. (Which - props for even posting about this, first of all!)

And before I get all rambly, AVEN is a really great, supportive, inclusive place, and a resource you might find helpful.

Ok, like, I identify as overarchingly queer, and that's my stock answer when my sexuality comes up, to avoid questions, but specifically I ID as autosexual homoromantic (get turned on by stuff but not by doing stuff with others, fall in love with/date women), or asexual spectrum if I don't wanna freak people out with my obscure labels. And this:

All I know is I really like to think about people (ranging over genders) having sex, but never involving *me*. I have utterly no desire to physically have any of it myself ever again. But I still find lots of things hot.

The thought of saying this to people only to have them counter with, "oh but you haven't had ENOUGH/the right KIND of sex" or "you're just AVOIDANT/have MENTAL HEALTH issues" or "you probably just DON'T FEEL ATTRACTIVE" or "you just need to find the RIGHT GUY" is so anxiety-making, y'all.

coulda been written about me, for serious for serious for serious. I've definitely gotten the "you're just avoidant/a late bloomer/have sex issues" response from therapists, my mother, random idiots on the internet, but what I've come around to via the support of the supportive is a feeling that it doesn't even MATTER if what's causing my sexlessness wrt other people is mental-illness or med-fueled, if this is temporary or permanent. My needs in relationships RIGHT NOW are (and for the past 22 years have been) to NOT HAVE SEX; the way I relate to other people, even when romantically, is non-sexual. Orientation, to me, isn't about the secret biological streaks you have running through you that you may or may not be aware of, since those can and do change constantly over your life anyway, and trying to constantly predict your pheromonal future or constantly take into account every piece of your pheromonal past just to describe who you are now is unfair, and also a guaranteed recipe for migraines. Rather, to me, orientation is about us + other people - other people as partners and other people as society - about identifying what we need and want in relationships, platonically, romantically, sexually, and about defining ourselves based on that, about carving out an identity in the face of a society that insists we should find any way possible to be normatively straight, and everything else exists in the eraseable/abnormal negative space. Carving out that identity and embracing that identity and finding ways to hold onto it even when people tell us we shouldn't/don't exist or that we need to change! Yes.

And based on everything I know about queerness, anything you're reading that says you gotta be strictly, definably gay or bi to id as queer is bs, because the extended acronym for LGBT+ totally includes "asexual" as well as "questioning" as valid queer labels. Some people use queerness to just mean "gay", yeah, but it's more universally used as an umbrella term, in terms of the orientation and not gender identity portion of things, for identities that fall on a spectrum outside of accepted, normative heterosexuality. Wanting to be (sexually or romantically) with the same gender, or NOT wanting to be (sexually or romantically) with the opposite gender, are both so far outside of/threatening to the accepted heteronormative sexual identity that it makes sense to me why, even though you can be asexual and exclusively date men or be asexual and exclusively date women [me] or be asexual and date both or no one ever, asexuality is just as valid a queer orientation identity as gay or bi or sexually fluid.

Also, my experience with asexuality is that it IS about a spectrum of not-being-attracted-to-people, from a complete lack of sexual interest in ANYTHING, to a lack of sexual interest in other humans, to (which sounds like what you're describing and is definitely what I experience) a lack of sexual interest in DOING things with other humans. It all counts. And straightness and gayness and bisexuality and everything in between are just as messy and diverse and unique to the individual as asexual spectrum stuff, so I'm comfortable feeling solidarity BOTH with people who date/love women and do have sexual attraction for them, AND with people who don't get turned on by anything, ever - even though neither applies to me fully. Outside-the-status-quo sexuality is so damn alienating, we need all the connectedness we can get. You can be bi + asexual, gay + asexual, straight + asexual, and still queer queer queer.

Everyone else has said some really salient (and probably far more coherent) things, too, but I'm gonna post this comment anyway in the hopes of contributing to the "hell yes, you identify as what you want!" fray. :) Feel free to slap me if I'm overstepping bounds, too!
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[personal profile] softestbullet 2010-03-12 10:28 pm (UTC)(link)
I just want to say -- I found this comment very helpful. :)

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[personal profile] glinda 2010-03-12 10:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Yay you for being all brave and honest.

As for what category this puts you in...well really there's such a broad spectrum around sexuality that if queer is a comfortable shorthand (there really does need to be a 'none of the above' category) for your own particular set of circumstance then have at it. Heteronormative presumptions are as unhelpful/hurtful to you as they are to any group that's officially under the 'queer' barrier.

Personally I use queer under gender identity so really...

(Admittedly the area where I came of age, sexuality wise, had a lot of crossover/shared safe spaces between LGBT and fetish/kink communities so queer was an umbrella term for any/all non-presumed-standard sexuality/gender identity thus I probably have a broader view of queer as a category than some people would do.)
bridgetmkennitt: (Default)

[personal profile] bridgetmkennitt 2010-03-12 10:46 pm (UTC)(link)
I read this post recently on my flist about their personal experience of being asexual. It might help some.
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[personal profile] 21freckles 2010-03-12 10:59 pm (UTC)(link)
All coherent comments are fighting to get out at once. ::snuggles/popcorn::
Georgie, we could explore this over crumpets and tea.
The Applewood this weekend perhaps.....?

Oh hia, it's me.
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[personal profile] thissugarcane 2010-03-12 11:07 pm (UTC)(link)
a. you know me and my support of queer as being everyone and anyone and -- so I'll just say the best part of this post, girl, is me picturing your face with the awkward whistling. in a good way! like, the cuteness of that awkward face.


this is why i don't post fb on people's stories because i sound like a moron. you know what I mean!
thissugarcane: dino comics (Default)

[personal profile] thissugarcane 2010-03-12 11:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Also, how do I edit this comment bullshit? wtfever-- the BEST part of this thread is L's POMOSEXUAL. NOW I KNOW TWO PEOPLE WHO HAVE (UN)IRONICALLY USED THAT WORD IN A SENTENCE. :DDD

I can't decide if pomosexual is the best thing since sliced bread or the stupidest. tomayto, tomahto? (like you I find that it just *sounds* so dumb.)

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